Starky thank you for being so honest on this board. i am a femme who has to worry about being hit on by men all the time. it is a real pain in my ass. That and my eyes on on my face damnit. Gods i hate men sometimes.
you need to come here. there are about five women who would love to meet you.
love your sense of chivalry. that will capture a woman's heart fast. you are definitely old school on that.
but i know you have it so much tougher than me. i admire you. i am not that brave. i will never deny my identity but for the most part everyone assumes i am straight by looking at me. makes my life easier for me.
i admire you for living you life as you deem fit.
i know that men and religious women can be so fucking mean about being gay. i have religious women attack me when they figure out i am gay. but i really know my bible. that it is one thing i tell them. why did not Jesus mention being gay is a sin. believe me, if he had said it, it would have been in the bible.
gods i hate the religious right! and republicans. they can't attack us freely now they go after the transgender with this fucking laws. where there has been no problem.
Keep being yourself Starky. at work they accept you because of your skills and i am sure personality. we are fairly supportive here but i do agree there is some of what you say. sigh, why do we sometimes attack ourselves. we need solidarity.
i am a femme who has to worry about being hit on by men all the time. it is a real pain in my ass.
Dayz, very glad to hear from you and your POV as well. Femmes do have their own unique challenges, mainly that they are NOT taken seriously. After all, based on the way they look, they -have to be- straight, right? Or just 'waiting for the right dick to come along and straighten them out of their confusion'? -sighs-
I am old school, for better or worse (and usually worse). Hunter/gatherer, provider type, etc. Also had a bad case of White Knight Syndrome for a while, which led me into a Bad Marriage that will end soon, but that is a whole 'nother story. Also learned the hard way that Single Moms Will Eat Me Alive. So I have to avoid them in the future, too.
i will never deny my identity but for the most part everyone assumes i am straight by looking at me. makes my life easier for me.
This is a double-edged sword, I think. It makes some things easier for you - but only things that are very shallow and based on a casual glance. No, you won't be sneered at when you walk into a room, but because you will never hide your identity you'll be treated to repulsion/shock when it is revealed sometimes. And I think that, in a way, is almost worse. Because people will act like they like you - but only if you maintain the lie they have presumed.
why did not Jesus mention being gay is a sin. believe me, if he had said it, it would have been in the bible.
Jesus gets the blame for individual peoples' hateful ignorance. They claim to worship a man who say and enjoyed dinner with prostitutes, in poverty, yet they have zero understanding of his message.
I know some good religious folks - but funny enough, they call themselves 'Christ-followers' rather than 'Christians'. Because they don't like being associated with the hate and exclusion of Republican-Dandy Christians.
I do believe we'll always have to face attacks from the societal 'norm'. But that we are so fractured within our own community, well, that is a pretty scary thing. Because at the end of the day, we are all we have. No one else wants us LOL
You are right about having people turn on you. At work two Christian women were going off about how disgusting dykes and gays are to a group who were listening and not arguing with them. i was in their department to do some work. i lost it and told them that they had a dyke in their midst. they literally looked around and asked who. i told them ME. needless to say it is awful quiet when i go back to that part of their office anymore.
I had to laugh at the "you just need a cock (i.e. me) to make you straight. i tell them my wife's dick is longer, thicker than theirs. it never gets soft and won't make me pregnant and best of all ... she can actually use it to give me an orgasm. that shuts most of them down but some keep on coming on. Then i just rank them down. Almost been punched a few times when the poor babies get ripped a new one. Gods they make me hate men.
I believe the term for me would be "soft butch" Which basically all of the above applies, expect I actually do own girl clothing and have long hair. (I chop it off every few years to be fair.)
Oh no, boys still think they have a right to me. They view me as the "hot lesbian" for a fetish. I get asked to threesomes a LOT BAAAAD!!
-sighs- I could say we wouldn't have this problem if it wasn't for bisexual women... But that'd open up a huge firestorm.
And it'd also be placing a bunch of blame on the only women who actually tend to date me...
I hate to get political, but gotta side-eye mostly ignorant cis men who think they're entitled to women's bodies, no matter what your sexuality is Can't imagine how many mouth breathers propositioned me just because I'm Asian and 'unattainable' so to speak, as long as it's someone they can 'bed', it sadly doesn't matter who you are and what your preference(s) is. That's just how our society is built, even if we are mindful of being open to other people's plight, and even if it's hatred we unfortunately aim towards ourselves, it's still something inherent which takes years to unlearn.
Just my opinion, but I think the LGBT community is too worried about wlw relationships turning heteronormative, most prominently shown years ago when people still thought they can tell you what to wear and how to act. Have you ever seen that movie 'If These Walls Could Talk 2'? There's a segment in there which resonated in me after I watched it, way back when I was still trying to figure stuff out, and heyy it's about a butch lesbian! I recommend it, in fact I think that segment's in youtube~
But yeah, it's is a ridiculous and old way of looking at it, but sadly, it's still a problem in our community :I Other people already press down on us and hurt us, and I'm in the camp who believe we can't afford to have any in-fighting in our community as well.
All the best though, starky! I do hope we all eventually find a place that accepts us for who we are, even if it seems impossible; sometimes all it takes is a small group of loving people who stay with you regardless.
I want to speak for a moment about The Endangered Species.
My own.
Ladies and gents, I am a butch.
A dyke.
Whatever term you want to use for it, derogatory or not - doesn't much bother me, 'cause I am what I am and I embrace it.
I'm one of those people that make everyone look twice, worried, because they do not know whether to say 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' when addressing me (Sir usually wins out).
Word. (and how about them bathroom trips, eh?)
I do not wear flannel or plaid (unless it is pyjama pants or boxer shorts, 'cause come on, those are comfy as hell for ANYONE).
I am not obese.
And, I can't emphasize this enough - I am not pre-op trans.
I'm just a butch.
I wear suits, stylish hats, leather jackets, and expensive button-up shirts that always have the sleeves rolled up ('cause that's how we get shit done).
And for some reason - within the LGBT (LMNOPQRS and all the other adopted letters inserted here) community, that is considered to be a Bad Thing.
So, if memory serves me right, as of 2010, the letters were: LGBTIAQQ2 (Lesbian.Gay.Bi.Trans*.Intersex.Ally/Asexual.Queer.Questioning.Two-Spirit), if someone has been doing PC community work within the last five years, and there are more letters, please let me know and I will add them to my repertoire.
::looks in closet, finds a disturbing amount of plaid: boxers, pj pants, flannel shirts and button downs:: I'm going to blame the US Pacific coast for being grunge influenced by Nirvana, and also say that my Soft Butch ID is personified into fuzzy flannel
I am also very much not trans*, otherwise it would have been So Much Easier to get married and be on my son's birth certificate as a second parent, and I would not have had to flounder in the seas of Registered Domestic Partnership inequality (and tax season hell) for four years until Obama decided to fuck shit up in the name of equal rights (Thanks, Obama!)
Not sure why. But it's placed 'my kind' on the outs, on the endangered species list, and it's convinced so many youth that going trans will magically Fix Everything For You.
Well - it will gain you a lot more acceptance amongst the LGBT community, that is for sure.
As for the rest - do your homework, and you'll come to find it's not the magic panacea you may think it is. If it was - we'd all do it.
My kind is not the only group on this vanishing list here in the Age of Androgyny. Effeminate males are also right there, mentioned and/or depicted only as objects of ridicule. Being gay is 'trendy' now, but for those of us who were born 'back in the day' - it wasn't. At all. And being 'visibly gay', such as dykes and fairies tend to be, made it all the worse.
This is actually a thing, here is a pro-trans article bringing attention to the plight, and then a second analyzing the first, a blog post with quotes from all over the map (philosophically and geographically). There is also the aspect of "butch-phobia" from within the community, here's an op-ed piece from the older generation along with some quotes from Big Boo actress DeLaria on Orange Is The New Black.
Sidenote: If you want to see Real venom from within The Commmunity, look at the blog posts of the few brave souls who got pressured into a trans* identity and are now trying to "retransition" back to their birth sex. That is, if you can find them, so many have been destroyed by internet peer pressure and vicious comments that their sites have been taken down or are now private access only.
There is no question of what we are. We walk into a room, and you just -know-. And maybe that is part of the problem. We're not 'fluid'. We're not 'enticing to both genders'. We're not a mystery - we're blatant, and we're right in your face in a way that doesn't make bisexuality, confusion, or just being caught up in a 'phase' any sort of consideration.
We are, undoubtedly, 'lost' to the heterosexual race. And maybe that is why we're always so hard to stomach.
In the age of the helpful, neutered, sexually non-threatening, gay (read: Ellen), we are feral, and not able to be 'mainstreamed.' It is possible that we butches are at best an embarrassment and at worst, dangerous to the 'unified public face' that is being presented to media and lawmakers.
Because if that's the line that reeled in Starky, someone else could be out there too, waiting for the courage to step forward and share their thoughts and talents. We're really not as scary as you might think
Oh no.. Take heart guys. Always remember that you have this crazy little group to rely on at least . And thanks for sharing; I'm aware that it's hard to live on society's standards nowadays but you know what? There's this thing called Wheel of Life, and who knows when you'll find yourself on top, it may already be turning as we speak
Well, fuck work up the ass with a rusty rod and no lube for making me miss out on all of these great responses today!
I had to laugh at the "you just need a cock (i.e. me) to make you straight. i tell them my wife's dick is longer, thicker than theirs. it never gets soft and won't make me pregnant and best of all ... she can actually use it to give me an orgasm.
oooohh... Dayz knows how to BURN!!
mostly ignorant cis men who think they're entitled to women's bodies, no matter what your sexuality is
This is a very valid point. Men are born into a sense of entitlement, and it carries over into sexual ego as much as anything else.
Have you ever seen that movie 'If These Walls Could Talk 2'? There's a segment in there which resonated in me after I watched it, way back when I was still trying to figure stuff out, and heyy it's about a butch lesbian! I recommend it, in fact I think that segment's in youtube~
I think I would be a total homo fail if I didn't own a very well-worn copy of that DVD. And yes, dat 1972 segment is the best part of the whole thing
I believe the term for me would be "soft butch" Which basically all of the above applies, expect I actually do own girl clothing and have long hair. (I chop it off every few years to be fair.)
Soft butch is still part of our dark side spectrum. We're inclusive
One time, upon being dared, I put on a woman's cut shirt. It was light blue, and had that sort of v-neck collar. My friends laughed so hard one of them peed herself (she denies it and says she spilled her drink, but we all knew better), and was told I looked like a bad crossdresser XD
Oh God. Horrible flashbacks. Getting smacked with a purse one time in my youth was enough to teach me to never, ever, EVER use public facilities unless it is a literal emergency. Thankfully I have not had one of those emergencies.
So, if memory serves me right, as of 2010, the letters were: LGBTIAQQ2 (Lesbian.Gay.Bi.Trans*.Intersex.Ally/Asexual.Queer.Questioning.Two-Spirit), if someone has been doing PC community work within the last five years, and there are more letters, please let me know and I will add them to my repertoire.
Munky is so PC XD I am grateful we have her. She can be our Community Liaison because damn, I don't even know what half of those denominations are... Also, you get a free pass on the flannel and plaid exactly for this: I'm going to blame the US Pacific coast for being grunge influenced by Nirvana, and also say that my Soft Butch ID is personified into fuzzy flannel But if you are using a chain wallet.. I must quietly step away and leave you to your fate
Sidenote: If you want to see Real venom from within The Commmunity, look at the blog posts of the few brave souls who got pressured into a trans* identity and are now trying to "retransition" back to their birth sex.
I am guessing they need to enter Witness Protection after this. And I'm only half-kidding.
In the age of the helpful, neutered, sexually non-threatening, gay (read: Ellen), we are feral, and not able to be 'mainstreamed.' It is possible that we butches are at best an embarrassment and at worst, dangerous to the 'unified public face' that is being presented to media and lawmakers.
And YES! -standing ovation-
And thank you for actually putting up useful articles for research. I need to consider including things like that in future rants... XD but I get caught up in the angry moments...
Cass and DD, thank you for putting up with this rant and for being so supportive as well. Really, this crazy little group is awesome! (and if either of you want me to write a Starky Rant for something that bothers you sometime, let me know. I take Rage!Requests)
dat 1972 segment is the best part of the whole thing
If you didn't want Chloe in that segment, you definitely wanted to be her. The delicious irony is that I think Boys Don't Cry was like immediately afterwards and she played the other side of the spectrum. Or perhaps I just have a thing for Chloe...
Munky is so PC XD I am grateful we have her. She can be our Community Liaison because damn, I don't even know what half of those denominations are...
Happy to enlighten anyone to the best of my abilities, my area of weakness is the new trans*/genderqueer/genderf*ck terminology and the varying colors and proper definition of "romantic" in the Asexual community, though as a lay person, being a Grey Ace sounds kinda cool...
But if you are using a chain wallet.. I must quietly step away and leave you to your fate
Only in the late 90s, Starky, only in the late 90s, where that trend properly belongs. Does it make it better if I tell you that I modified it and used a neon yellow sproingy plastic phonecord looking thing bought with skee ball tickets instead?
And thank you for actually putting up useful articles for research. I need to consider including things like that in future rants... XD but I get caught up in the angry moments...
Hey, Starky rants, I cite sources. I got your back ::flashback:: "I talk, you fight"? ;D
Because if that's the line that reeled in Starky, someone else could be out there too, waiting for the courage to step forward and share their thoughts and talents. We're really not as scary as you might think
The delicious irony is that I think Boys Don't Cry was like immediately afterwards and she played the other side of the spectrum.
So true! In fact I was actually shocked when I found out later she wasn't really 'one of us' because she'd taken on those roles. Recently saw her in the Netflix series 'Bloodline'. It helped to wash out the bad taste that 'Big Love' left in my mouth...
Happy to enlighten anyone to the best of my abilities, my area of weakness is the new trans*/genderqueer/genderf*ck terminology and the varying colors and proper definition of "romantic" in the Asexual community, though as a lay person, being a Grey Ace sounds kinda cool...
..there are varying.. colors... to define romance in the Asexual community? I.. feel the exact same way I did when I was introduced into Algebra. Don't mix Letters Into my Math! Don't mix colors into Sexytime Orientation! ;_;
Grey Ace - why is that term reminding me of Starcraft??
Does it make it better if I tell you that I modified it and used a neon yellow sproingy plastic phonecord looking thing bought with skee ball tickets instead?
No, no, just the fact it was left in the 90s was enough for me to brethe a sigh of relief XD ..but you did good on your skee ball ticket cash-in. I think the best thing I ever got was a keychain... that was broken.
So, if memory serves me right, as of 2010, the letters were: LGBTIAQQ2 (Lesbian.Gay.Bi.Trans*.Intersex.Ally/Asexual.Queer.Questioning.Two-Spirit), if someone has been doing PC community work within the last five years, and there are more letters, please let me know and I will add them to my repertoire.
Hip college students in the community are just using LGBTQIA+ now The "+" is just because there's all this shit we can't keep up with, but a plus sign is automatically inclusive, lol.
What is "Boys Don't Cry"? You guys make me feel like such a baby lmao. At least I know who Nirvana is (my favorite angsty middle school band!)
Oh thank goodness. Even the hip college students can't keep up with all of the initials LOL
What is "Boys Don't Cry"? You guys make me feel like such a baby lmao.
That would be, this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_Don%27t_Cry_(film) Swank won an Oscar for her performance, and it's pretty damn brutal so don't watch it if you have a weak stomach..
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