It remains to be seen whether the show actually excised the whole issue of the "valonqar," or whether it simply hasn't shown that part of Maggy's prophecy to the viewers yet. But at the very least, Cersei still has a young and beautiful queen to worry about — and this time, she probably shouldn't make the mistake of jumping to conclusions.
I mean, they could still add in another 30 seconds of as yet unrevealed Maggy the Frog prophecy for those slow folks in the back that need to be bludgeoned to death with foreshadowing.
They could. But they wont. 10 to 1 saids they wont. They'll just totally gloss over the whole thing.
Unfortunately, it kinda is dead now because as Munky pointed out, in HBO canon, the Valonqar is not a thing.
Sure, but then there's this, which sort of fell to the wayside...
So this could also lead to another very interesting question - if Arya's endgame in GoT does NOT involve killing Cersei, what do you all think it could be?
Unfortunately, it kinda is dead now because as Munky pointed out, in HBO canon, the Valonqar is not a thing.
Sure, but then there's this, which sort of fell to the wayside...
So this could also lead to another very interesting question - if Arya's endgame in GoT does NOT involve killing Cersei, what do you all think it could be?
I did answer that. And then totally ran with it and posted a fic idea in that appropriate thread.
Basically though, I havent got the slightest clue. I mean, she doesnt really belong any more, she doesnt have a place. Eventually, her sister will marry and have children, so shes no heir to winterfell. She herself will never marry, shes no lady, less now then she was before.
I suppose, assuming leaks hold true. She could end up serving as her niece's master of whispers, or something to that effect. The blood stained left hand to the Queen as it were (Dragon Age reference ftw?)
I did answer that. And then totally ran with it and posted a fic idea in that appropriate thread.
LOL I know you did. I'm trying to rope others into the conversation as well. That's sort of my evil plan behind these topics - not that it will necessarily work, but hey, I'm trying XD
Basically though, I havent got the slightest clue. I mean, she doesnt really belong any more, she doesnt have a place. Eventually, her sister will marry and have children, so shes no heir to winterfell. She herself will never marry, shes no lady, less now then she was before.
Yeah, if D&D don't have some kind of solid plan or endgame purpose in mind (and I don't hold much faith in them for obvious reasons), she'll end up being remembered as a wasted character. There's already a lot of mud slung at some of her plot lines, and I can't really blame any hands doing the slinging - her arc has not been handled well over the last two seasons.
I did answer that. And then totally ran with it and posted a fic idea in that appropriate thread.
LOL I know you did. I'm trying to rope others into the conversation as well. That's sort of my evil plan behind these topics - not that it will necessarily work, but hey, I'm trying XD
Basically though, I havent got the slightest clue. I mean, she doesnt really belong any more, she doesnt have a place. Eventually, her sister will marry and have children, so shes no heir to winterfell. She herself will never marry, shes no lady, less now then she was before.
Yeah, if D&D don't have some kind of solid plan or endgame purpose in mind (and I don't hold much faith in them for obvious reasons), she'll end up being remembered as a wasted character. There's already a lot of mud slung at some of her plot lines, and I can't really blame any hands doing the slinging - her arc has not been handled well over the last two seasons.
Her arc has been handled damn right shitty since she left Tywin Lannister's service as his cup barer.
And the whole Faceless Man thing was just gutted. It had none of the depths nor connections it had in the books. Watered down to some slightly mystical order of killers for hire.
It has been a long time since i read the books but didn't Cersei like her father also blame Tyrion for his mother's death. Plus, well, Cersei is a bitch in the story sad to say.
Am the only who has any desire to redeem her? i see some of me in her.
blast did not see second page till after post.
Last Edit: Dec 27, 2017 3:41:26 GMT by kabukidance
It has been a long time since i read the books but didn't Cersei like her father also blame Tyrion for his mother's death. Plus, well, Cersei is a bitch in the story sad to say.
Am the only who has any desire to redeem her? i see some of me in her.
Maggy the Frog's prophecy regarding Cersei's future included in the books, a line about how the Valonqar would kill her after she had lost everything. The word itself means younger brother or younger male cousin. However, given that its HighVal, one theory is that the term is actually gender neutral, as 'dragons have no gender'.
And yes, you might just be the only person here that wants to redeem her.
I don’t have a desire to redeem Cersei so much as I have a burning desire to see Arya kill her. In Red Blossoms Arya killed her in a brilliant but also totally plausible way.
“I’m not a Lady, I’m a Wolf!” "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." The tormentor becomes the tormented. People become what they love and hate, because their mind focuses on it."
I don’t have a desire to redeem Cersei so much as I have a burning desire to see Arya kill her. In Red Blossoms Arya killed her in a brilliant but also totally plausible way.
Ironic, you forgot beautifully ironic. Given how Robert died.
I don’t have a desire to redeem Cersei so much as I have a burning desire to see Arya kill her. In Red Blossoms Arya killed her in a brilliant but also totally plausible way.
Ironic, you forgot beautifully ironic. Given how Robert died.
Very true. Kudos Revan.
“I’m not a Lady, I’m a Wolf!” "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." The tormentor becomes the tormented. People become what they love and hate, because their mind focuses on it."
What just now came to my head is, it was said "his pale White Hands". Could it be a White walker in the end? They are White and form ice. Or maybe someone that she knows gets changed and because ot this the sentence.
What i would like to love the most would be Jamie. It would be tragic, but also make Jamie live up to his title.
Saving Westeros from a mad king and yrars later now from a mad queen.
Cersei is sure it must be Tyrion since he is her "younger brother".
But the question i always ask myself os the following. Who came first out her mothers womb, Cersei or Jamie? IF Cersei was the first one Jamie IS a "younger" brother like Tyrion.
The other theory from a fiction hete was also good, that it could be ANY younger brother or even sibling, if the profecy isn' t bound to a gender or family.
Last Edit: Oct 9, 2018 5:42:58 GMT by killthebeast
So this could also lead to another very interesting question - if Arya's endgame in GoT does NOT involve killing Cersei, what do you all think it could be?
While most leaks indicate Arya lives through to the end (which fits with GRRMs original outline), I've also had a sinking feeling right from the start, due to this scene:
..That look on Ned's face at the end just guts me every time. It's like he's slowly realizing he set something in motion that will end up being the death of his child.
((bonus points to everyone else who also noticed how Syrio specifically points out 'only one hand' is needed to master this art - hey, that's perfect for imitating someone who only has one hand!))
I dont know. There was this over lay of clashing steel swords there, as the proud smile slowly fell from his face that made me think that while, yes, he was realizing he has set his daughter on the path of a warrior. - But that is a realization I imagine he had with Rob and Jon, and would have had with Bran and Rickon as well. He was more having flash backs. Personally, I think they were flash backs to the Tower of Joy. After all, Arya is supposed to look like Lyanna, and Ser Auther Dayne could weild a sword with one hand, hell, he could duel weild. Which I bet is extreamly unheard of in Westeros to wield two full blades at one time
It could also be the realization, as he watched Arya rapidly improve in that scene, that Arya's path would be a difficult one, because clearly, the gods had fashioned her to be a swordswoman, and swordswoman did not have a place in Westeros society.
As for what her end game could be if she doesnt kill Cersei... arg. idk. I like the leaks hinted that she goes back east. Maybe she returns to the Faceless Men in the end. Her list has been completed, she has had her vengeance, given the names to the god of death and now, with the remains of her family safe, she is content to be No One, since she has no place in Westeros.
Even if Ned was thinking about what having Arya trained in sword fighting would cause or if it would eventually lead to her death, I would think that what would have happened had she not been trained would be worse. Either she wouldn't have escaped the Red Keep / King's Landing because she wouldn't have been with Syrio, in which case I can't foresee her lasting long with putting up with Joffrey or Cersei, or see would have died along the road.
Ned allowing her to train with a sword has allowed her to survive the harsh environment that is Westeros. Even if she dies fighting, you can't say with certainty that not training her would have let her survive past the first season, let alone the episode where the Stark household is killed.
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