Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 23:11:55 GMT
So, I have been asked more than once how I personally think Game of Thrones and ASOIAF (as they are separate entities, now) will end. As for the HBO series - I think they've telegraphed the 'Farmboy King Jon/Disneyfied' ending pretty well.
Mark my words - in the end, Jon will be king.
However... with that in mind, I don't know if Daenerys will necessarily be Queen in the television series. I do believe she will be in the ASOIAF novels - but those are a different storyline, now.
In fact, I only see two ways the HBO series ends for Daenerys - but each are equally possible at this point.
a) the telegraphed, Disney-fied Jon/Dany Targaryen ruling alliance, complete with prophecy fulfillment and Targaryen heirs etc. I won't get into this one, it's been discussed ad nauseum everywhere already.
Or:
b) The subtly foreshadowed death of Daenerys as a Heroic Conqueror.
But they would never kill Dany, would they? She has the DRAGONS. She's arguably the main character of the entire series. She's the last Targaryen--
...nope. It's now canonly confirmed she is not. And in fact, she's not even the Targaryen with the best claim to the Iron Throne anymore. Especially if Lyanna and Rhaegar secretly wed, as some speculate. In fact, if other rumors are true, and Tyrion is actually a bastard Targ as well (and to be honest, there is a pretty good argument for that, especially after that little easter egg scene we got with Dany's dragons responding so well to our favorite dwarf), well, then she's only one of -three- Targaryens left running around in the world.
There's been a lot of emphasis the last two seasons on depicting the differences between conquerors and rulers. By the end of season 6, there should be no doubt Dany is firmly in the 'conqueror' category (just look at what she was prepared to do to the cities of Slaver's Bay until Tyrion talked her down). Which is ideal for Westeros right now - because it's being ruled by a Mad Queen in the form of Cersei, and Winter Has Come.
And rulers are fine and dandy, but Conquerors are the ones who Get Shit Done.
I do believe Dany, and her army, and her dragons, absolutely will save Westeros. Some theorize that Dany is set up to actually become a well-intentioned villain - and while I can see why that would be a topic of debate, I just don't see that happening. Dany has a selfless heart. Even when she makes mistakes, it's because she is putting others, her people, before herself, and has to make impossible decisions.
So aside from the fact Dany has been successfully shaped as a 'conqueror' rather than a 'ruler', there's also another major factor to consider in this hypothesis:
The House of the Undying.
The HotU has major implications in the novel, and it is the main reason why we know at some point there will be an inevitable Jon/Dany connection. It foretold the Red Wedding, gave Dany an important glimpse of Rhaegar and his son (unknown if it's Aegon or Jon), provided a few prophecies, and is one of the main 'guiding stars' for the entire saga.
But the HotU sequence in the HBO series is entirely different. And I don't think that was random, or just depicted for some juju shade of the evening weirdness. Knowing how important that event is for the endgame, they likely adjusted it to actually fit the ending they were going to create.
And in that sequence... well, I think that all kinda speaks for itself.
Dany reaches King's landing - the Red Keep, which has been badly damaged (dragons? wildfire? Angry wildlings with molotov cocktails? Who knows).
Snow covers the Great Hall, and the Iron Throne (yes, winter - but also, more obviously, Jon Snow. This goes hand in hand with Melisandre's book vision of seeing snow falling on the throne). She reaches out to touch it - it's within her grasp, she -could- lay her hand on it and make it her own... but she pulls away at the last moment.
She's heard a dragon cry.
She walks toward the sound.. and she's led out of the Red Keep, beyond the Wall. There, in the middle of a storm, is a tent with Drogo and Rhaego. She walks out and leaves them, and the vision ends.
Many think this was a series of 'tests'. 'The Temptations of Daenerys', or something like that - all serving as distractions so she would forget about finding her dragons. I don't really think it was that simplistic - they wanted to keep her prisoner with the dragons anyways. I think that the whole sequence might possibly have foretold how Dany's end comes about in the GoT series -
She reaches King's Landing, in winter, after fighting the last petty southern war - where Jon Snow is likely not 'on' the throne, but she may know his lineage and 'right to it', by that point.
And before she can take it for herself regardless... the real war, the war against the Undead, draws her to the North and beyond the Wall. She's a 'conqueror', not a 'ruler', and she's not going to sit on a chair when her kingdom is under siege.
She's going to take the fight right to the enemy's doorstep.
And it could very well be where she falls, and dies a hero, 'returning to her dead Khal and son', so to speak, and bequeathing Westeros and her 'children' to her heir, Jon Targaryen - therefore still keeping the Farmboy Trope in play, but in a slightly less Disney-Magical way.
Of course, this is all just theory and conjecture - maybe worth some discussion?
Mark my words - in the end, Jon will be king.
However... with that in mind, I don't know if Daenerys will necessarily be Queen in the television series. I do believe she will be in the ASOIAF novels - but those are a different storyline, now.
In fact, I only see two ways the HBO series ends for Daenerys - but each are equally possible at this point.
a) the telegraphed, Disney-fied Jon/Dany Targaryen ruling alliance, complete with prophecy fulfillment and Targaryen heirs etc. I won't get into this one, it's been discussed ad nauseum everywhere already.
Or:
b) The subtly foreshadowed death of Daenerys as a Heroic Conqueror.
But they would never kill Dany, would they? She has the DRAGONS. She's arguably the main character of the entire series. She's the last Targaryen--
...nope. It's now canonly confirmed she is not. And in fact, she's not even the Targaryen with the best claim to the Iron Throne anymore. Especially if Lyanna and Rhaegar secretly wed, as some speculate. In fact, if other rumors are true, and Tyrion is actually a bastard Targ as well (and to be honest, there is a pretty good argument for that, especially after that little easter egg scene we got with Dany's dragons responding so well to our favorite dwarf), well, then she's only one of -three- Targaryens left running around in the world.
There's been a lot of emphasis the last two seasons on depicting the differences between conquerors and rulers. By the end of season 6, there should be no doubt Dany is firmly in the 'conqueror' category (just look at what she was prepared to do to the cities of Slaver's Bay until Tyrion talked her down). Which is ideal for Westeros right now - because it's being ruled by a Mad Queen in the form of Cersei, and Winter Has Come.
And rulers are fine and dandy, but Conquerors are the ones who Get Shit Done.
I do believe Dany, and her army, and her dragons, absolutely will save Westeros. Some theorize that Dany is set up to actually become a well-intentioned villain - and while I can see why that would be a topic of debate, I just don't see that happening. Dany has a selfless heart. Even when she makes mistakes, it's because she is putting others, her people, before herself, and has to make impossible decisions.
So aside from the fact Dany has been successfully shaped as a 'conqueror' rather than a 'ruler', there's also another major factor to consider in this hypothesis:
The House of the Undying.
The HotU has major implications in the novel, and it is the main reason why we know at some point there will be an inevitable Jon/Dany connection. It foretold the Red Wedding, gave Dany an important glimpse of Rhaegar and his son (unknown if it's Aegon or Jon), provided a few prophecies, and is one of the main 'guiding stars' for the entire saga.
But the HotU sequence in the HBO series is entirely different. And I don't think that was random, or just depicted for some juju shade of the evening weirdness. Knowing how important that event is for the endgame, they likely adjusted it to actually fit the ending they were going to create.
And in that sequence... well, I think that all kinda speaks for itself.
Dany reaches King's landing - the Red Keep, which has been badly damaged (dragons? wildfire? Angry wildlings with molotov cocktails? Who knows).
Snow covers the Great Hall, and the Iron Throne (yes, winter - but also, more obviously, Jon Snow. This goes hand in hand with Melisandre's book vision of seeing snow falling on the throne). She reaches out to touch it - it's within her grasp, she -could- lay her hand on it and make it her own... but she pulls away at the last moment.
She's heard a dragon cry.
She walks toward the sound.. and she's led out of the Red Keep, beyond the Wall. There, in the middle of a storm, is a tent with Drogo and Rhaego. She walks out and leaves them, and the vision ends.
Many think this was a series of 'tests'. 'The Temptations of Daenerys', or something like that - all serving as distractions so she would forget about finding her dragons. I don't really think it was that simplistic - they wanted to keep her prisoner with the dragons anyways. I think that the whole sequence might possibly have foretold how Dany's end comes about in the GoT series -
She reaches King's Landing, in winter, after fighting the last petty southern war - where Jon Snow is likely not 'on' the throne, but she may know his lineage and 'right to it', by that point.
And before she can take it for herself regardless... the real war, the war against the Undead, draws her to the North and beyond the Wall. She's a 'conqueror', not a 'ruler', and she's not going to sit on a chair when her kingdom is under siege.
She's going to take the fight right to the enemy's doorstep.
And it could very well be where she falls, and dies a hero, 'returning to her dead Khal and son', so to speak, and bequeathing Westeros and her 'children' to her heir, Jon Targaryen - therefore still keeping the Farmboy Trope in play, but in a slightly less Disney-Magical way.
Of course, this is all just theory and conjecture - maybe worth some discussion?
. it is something so unique it took 5 books for it to come to his mind. that beyond being lazy would explain the slow time for the 6th book. he did say it would take rewriting what he had already written to at least some degree.
